To Whom It May Concern:

Are these batteries available for automobiles?
If so, what does one cost?
Where can they be purchased?

Frank Apostol

Great idea, hope it will work out.

A few observations

CAUTION: the people likely to replicate this experiment know this:
1. Use personal protection and safety precautions when removing the battery electrolyte.
2. Due to its lead content it is industrial waste (poison) and must not be poured down the drain or into nature.
3. The water used for the alum electrolyte needs to be distilled or fully demineralized water. Tap water ruins the electrolyte (or does it in this case rovide helpful trace elements?)

TRUE - the battery fluid is non corrosive
FALSE - the battery gas is not explosive
REASON: what gasses out of the battery when charging is not the alum but as usual the elements water is made of, oxygen and hydrogen, an explosive combination.

LIKELY UNTRUE: The claim that the silicon battery is less environmentally harmful is only true if it is NOT using lead, so it is a technology different from the topic of this posting.

LIKELY TRUE: when my family car's battery gets old (in 5-7 years), I'll try to rescue it with the described alum electrolyt

Jonathan comments by email:

Sepp,

This is a great discovery, but the idea of "dumping" the contents of the old battery really creeped me out. It is very poisonous, dangerous toxic waste. That liter or so of liquid in a lead-acid battery is sulfuric acid that can burn your skin and blind you if splashed, with a huge amount of dissolved lead, so it must be taken to a hazardous waste company for disposal.

SEPP ET. AL.--- THERE ARE A FEW ADS ON THE WEB FOR RECYCLING BATTERIES COMMERCIALLY-- MAINLY THE RECHARGEABLE PORTABLE TOOL TYPE. SMALL CHARGE FOR THE INFO.
AS I USE 6V. LEAD ACID BATTERIES IN MY BUSINESS, FOR ELECTROPLATING THEY GO BAD RATHER QUICKLY, ABOUT ONCE A YEAR SO I WILL HAVE GOOD REASON TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE SUGGESTIONS HERE AND GIVE YOU A REPORT.
PETE LINDERMAN AND JOHN BEDINI HAVE A METHOD OF EITHER RECHARGING OR REPLACING ELECTROLYTE THAT GIVES THEM UNLIMITED LIFE ON DEEP-CYCLE BATTERIES. THEY SHOWED ME ONE WITH ABOUT 14 YEARS OF SERVICE.REGARDS.....SLIM....

A message to Slim (by email):

SLIM,

ALKALI MIX IS NOT 4 OZ ALUM TO 64 OZ- DISTILLED WATER.

IT IS 4 OZ OF ALUM TO 40 OZ-DISTILLED WATER.

SUGGEST THEY TEST THIS TO SEE IF IT WORKS BETTER.
DO

I used to rebuild automotive batteries for a living. Back then, you just heated up the tar seal and pulled the cells. I can tell you that most battery failures are due to vibration, where the plate or a cell connection breaks.
Life expectancy is mostly affected by high current draws that actually flex the plates. This leads to loosening of the powdered lead on the plates. The powder builds up in the bottom of the battery and eventually reaches the level of the bottom of the plates. At that point, the cell plates short and it's finished.
After plastic batteries were introduced, we couldn't take them apart anymore. So we simply invert the battery and drained the acid into a Poly plastic container. The acid won't eat poly or styrofoam. Use poly gloves, not latex. A lot of the crud comes out with the acid.
Fill the cells with water, agitate and invert into another plastic container. A small trash can works well. Repeat this process until the battery rinses clean.
Wait a few days. The heavy lead products in the acid and the rinse water will settle to the bottom fairly quickly. The container with rinse water you can neutralize with baking soda. An electrolytic process can probably remove the remaining dissolved lead products, but most of it settles. Pour off the clear liquid until the crud is left at the bottom. Leave it in a plastic bucket until it dries. Or, if you do this regularly, save this rinse water for other batteries.
Filter the acid and reuse in the battery. You will need to top off the cells with more. Pour the leftover crud into the drying bucket.
About 50% of batteries will get a useful life again.
As far as replacing the sulfuric acid with Alum, I would be concerned about the aluminum precipitating out of solution and causing shorts. But the biggest problem with lead/acid batteries is the lead, not the acid. I think I'll try it though.

since i didn't want to waste a good battery i started this experiment by using my oldest junk battery.it was literally covered in the weeds, had been open for years and was half empty. i topped it off with distilled water and charged it up. but when i tested it @100amps it showed as three cells dead. i looked inside it and saw that three of the cells were caked up in that white crystaline SULPHATION that shorts out the cells. i knew there was no chance that it would work in that condition so i resolved to clean it up first. i did this by making a gallon of solution of distilled water with as much baking soda as it would dissolve mixed into it. i dumped out the battery and filled it with this solution. WARNING: wear EYE protection and old clothes and shoes. even a small drop of battery acid will eat a hole in them. WARNING: fill slowly because the chemical reaction is violent and will boil over and shoot out if done too fast.

i noticed that when full it continued to bubble about like it does when charging. i let it set overnight until the was no sign of chemical reaction. upon inspection i was pleased to find the battery plates AS CLEAN AS NEW. no sign of the white crystaline SULPHATION.

i dumped this solution out and replaced it with distilled water. i reasoned that this would absorb any residual baking soda. i let it stand overnight. i dumped it out and filled with the ALUM electrolyte solution of 1oz. ALUM per 10oz.'s distilled water. and hooked up the charger. at first it didn't want to take any charge. after i BUMPED it a few times by hitting the quick charge switch on the charger ( i figured it needed to be RE-POLARIZED) it started to take a charge. but only around 5 amps. over a few hours this increased to 15amps. when the charger showed the battery was full i tested it with a 100 AMP LOAD TESTER type meter. it showed as marginal weak. i knew this battery had previously shown three cells dead. it still showed three cells dead but also showed the other three as GOOD.

this indicated to me that the principle was valid so i decided to repeat the experiment with a good battery. i followed the same procedure wityh a DIEHARD group 65 700cca battery that was several years old but still tested as good after one test @100 amps but marginal weak after two tests. after filling with the alkaline i tested it and it immediately checked as OK but on the low side. i charged it 4 hours @15 amps.it tested as high as a new battery. even after four tests @100 amps it still showed as good.

CONCLUSION: usually when somethings too good to be true it ain't. but this is contrary. THIS WORKS!

one more point i left out. don't just blindly believe what someone says about sulphuric acid bieng a pollutant. it's actually used to TREAT WASTEWATER ( google it ) and except for killing a few ameobas or worms when dumped on the earth it simply returns to where it came from. it's SULPHUR. http://www.flowline.com/sucess_stories/S39_SulfuricAcid.lasso

Hi,

I want to try this, but need the formula clarified, as we're putting a powder into a liquid. Is it 10 Fluid OZ (volume) to 40 Fluid OZ (volume) or 10 OZ (weight) to 40 Fluid OZ (volume)?

Ross

With regard to waist Sulphuric Acid, it's not the acid itself, it's the disolved Lead that's the problem.
Has any one tried to do this on Sealed Lead Acid Batteries?. It's probably a bit of a job making sure the electrolyte has been fully replaced.

Hi friends: I am very glad to find so many people working on saving batteries! I have been thinking about using baking sosa to clean the batt. as I have used it with lemon juice to clean silver and other metals with sulfate and it works great. I may use the Alum and water on four deep cycle Trojan batteries I use on my 12 panels solar system and I hope it works. Thanks!
RL

Thanks for the info! Any new news as how the Alum/water conversion is working so far on the batteries that have been converted to alkaline?
Thanks! RL

I tried the Alum on three batteries. I followed these steps:
1) Removed and stored the acid.
2)Cleaned the battery with baking soda/water solution.
3) Washed with water three times.
4) Washed with destiled water.
5) Filled with Alum 10z to 10oz water.
[Sepp comment: From other comments it seems that the ratio should be 10 Alum to 100 oz water, or 1 alum to 10 water]
Charged the battery to 100% but battery lost the charge rapidly as before. It seems that is the battery is good the Alum will work just fine. If the battery is bad, the Alum is not going to help to bring it to life.
One of the batteries I filled back with acid instead and the behavior was the same as with the Alum.
I read that you can open the battery and clean it. I did this carefully but the plates will brake easily. I believe it will be very hard to pull the complete plate group as one without damage to them and for me is not worth the effort!
RL
PS I may try the alum on a better battery. I did tried also on sealed batteries by removing the top plate. I found the have caps just like regular batteries but they are covered with a plastic plate that can be removed with easy. I had the same result as with the deep cycle batteries. Fast charge but rapid lost of voltage.

Well time for an update, it's been a while since I posted the original info as there's been more discovery.

As far as the Guineng batteries go, that company was infringing on the patent of the original company and is out of business. The real company is Greensaver.

You can find their website here.

There are companies in the US selling the Greensaver batteries.

I was able to buy one and have it in a vehicle. The battery seems to have plenty of power.

Regarding the alum conversion:

1. The ratio I have always used is 4oz of dry alum powder to 64 oz of water. I have recently converted a battery with 50g alum to 1liter of water. That is very close to the same ratio.

Some have posted using very high ratio's. They may work, I don't know. The water will only absorb a certian amount of alum and then reach saturation. Saturation is 68 to 79mg/l at 20*C, ph - 9.

It is not necessary to use so much alum. Save your money.

Regarding appropriate candidates for conversion:

If the battery will not take or hold a weak charge, then it may not be able to convert. The conversion process uses the sulfation of the plates as a catalyst in the chemical reation. So it is not necessary to do any washing or rinsing with baking soda solution. The sulfation of the plates begins reversing when you add the alum solution and it will end up being removed over time.

Chosing a very old and malfunctioning battery for the conversion may not yeild a useful battery after conversion.

There is enough evidence from my work and that of others posting that the concept is valid and works well on appropriate candidates for conversion.

What remains is to more scientifically calculate the ratio of alum to water for the project.

I am convinced from what I am seeing that the Greensaver battery can be essentially homemade by the alum conversion technique.

Happy converting!

TS

forgot to post the url for greensaver:

www.greensaver.cn/en

TS

By the way, I have started a new Yahoo Tech Group to discuss battery conversions.

It is called BatteryConversions.

You can access it at Yahoo Groups:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/batteryconversions/

All the best,

Timothy Shell

I GOOFED GUYS! i just learned i made a TYPO. it's 10 oz. alum per 100 oz. distilled water or 1 oz. per 10 oz. i am SORRY!
also i used USP grade ALUM.

OOOOPS I GOOFED SORRY! i made a typo in my posting. a BIG MISTAKE! i meant 10 oz. alum for 100 oz. distilled water NOT 10 oz. water. BIIIIG DIFFERENCE. so it's 1oz.alum per 10 oz.water

Hi all:
Yes I had a typo too!. I use 1oz alum per 10 oz water. I will try another batt without any rinsing :)
Thanks!!
RL

"OOOOPS I GOOFED SORRY! i made a typo in my posting. a BIG MISTAKE! i meant 10 oz. alum for 100"

Does anyone of you here had an ‘old’ laptop whose batteries can’t even last 10 minutes? Well, instead of playing with it by tossing it into an open flame to see what happens or throwing it in the dumpster where it’s ecologically not helpful, why don’t you try reviving it?
Yes you can! With some newspapers and a fridge of course. According to the ‘expert’ you need to take those old batteries out of the casing, wrap it in newspapers (thick enough so not much moisture will be in contact with the batteries) and leave it for like a week or so. Let it cool down in room temperature after that for at least a couple of hours or a day.
Once it has settled down in room temperature, wipe off any traces of moisture on the batteries, put the batteries back in its casing, stuff it back in the laptop and charge. (Do not switch the laptop on!) Make sure it is 100% powered up.

which grade of alum i should use, please specify

I saw this battery mod just after my first spring attempted use of my garden tractor. The battery had been charged over the winter a few times, as I run my equipment instead of winterizing. Well, it would not turn the engine over. It showed 4.5 volts and would charge to 14 volts, but would not even run a light for a few minutes.
For the mod I:
1. drained battery
2. flushed out several times
3. mixed one bottle of McCormick Alum, Potassium Aluminum Sulfate or true Potash Alum, from the canning section used for pickling. 1.9oz alum to 64 fluid OZ water
3. charged 14 volts 4 amps until 14 volts, about 8 minutes
4. drew down using 20 watt spot light to 5 volts, took about 2 minutes
5. charged 14 volts 5 amps until 14 volts, about 10 minutes
6. drew down using 20 watt spot light to 5 volts, took about 4 minutes
7. charged 14 volts 2 amps until 14 volts, about 20 minutes
8. drew down using 20 watt spot light to 5 volts, took about 8 minutes
9. charged 14 volts 8 amps until 14 volts, about 20 minutes
10. drew down using 20 watt spot light to 5 volts, took about 30 minutes
11. checked cells, five were 1.85 volts, one was 0.4 volts
12. charged with pulse charger 120 volts 3 amps until 12 volts
13. checked cells, all were 1.85 volts
14. charged 14 volts 10 amps until 13.1 volts, about 15 minutes
15. let battery sit for 30 minutes, stabilized at 11.6 volts
16. put in tractor, cranked over strongly and started. let run for a few minutes
17. let battery sit for one hour, stabilized at 11.6 volts
18. cranked over strongly and started, let run for a few minutes
19. let battery sit for four hours, stabilized at 11.6 volts
20. cranked over strongly and started, let run for a few minutes
9. let battery sit overnight, stabilized at 11.5 volts
20. cranked over strongly and started. let run for a few minutes
21. ran battery down by cranking engine over with no spark
22. slow charged 2 amps to 14.5 volts
23. battery stabilized at 11.6 volts
24. after setting one week tractor cranked over very strong and started

Conclusion, Looks like it worked pretty good. I have read of the mix being 1:10 to 1:64, mine was 1:32. Think I'll try a stronger mix, the 1:10 next time or maybe stauration.

Hi friend:
Neat experiment and test. I will try that on two Trojan 6 volts I have. In what store did you buy your Alum?

Thanks, RL

I took a ten year old battery. Cleaned it out and filled the cells with 1:10 alum / distilled h2o. I could not revive the completely dead battery but I could get it to hold a charge of 2.84 volts. I am guessing cells were too far gone. May try it with a new battery I just purchased for our mower. Will update later.

I too have tried the experiment during this week. I used a battery that after a full charge could start a car 24 hours later. Replaced the battery with a new one but kept the old one to experiment with.
1 Drained all the acid, flushed battery with a weak solution of bicarb of soda a few times,
2 Rinsed with boiling water and poured out,
3 Over a period of a week left the battery standing with a strong bicarb solution,
4. Poured out the bicarb and again rinsed with boiling water followed with distilled water,
5. Prepared a solution 1:10 alum to ionised/distilled water by weight which did not dissolve completely so added more water until the remaining crystals with much shaking dissolved completely; solution then became approximately 1:12 by weight,
6. Put the battery on charge and struck a snag. Battery seemed to charge rapidly but not to reach full charge. My battery charger is a small unit with only 3 settings, trickle, heavy or starting.
7. Connected a digital volt meter and switched from trickle to heavy. The charger seems to cycle between 13,5V ~ 14.2V and indicates an intermittent “battery full” LED, i.e. the LED flickers on and off. In desperation switched to start. The volt meter went steady @ 14.2V, the built amp showed 5 Amps and the battery full LED glowed full on.
8. Disconnected the battery charger and to my dismay the battery voltage dropped down to 11.6V
9. Will put a load on it tomorrow to see if there is any success.

Sorry for posting my message twice. I goofed on the posting anyway; I left out a "not"

I used a battery that after a full charge could NOT start my car 24 hours later

Carlos, Lead Alum is not anything like lead acid chemistry and does not have the same full charge voltage, it is lower voltage innately like all alkaline chemistries. My guess is to get that battery up and running well you will need a battery discharger (or a car if it tolerates it) discharge pretty much fully then recharge several times. A pulse charger helps. Lead alum seems to have less of a voltage drop than lead acid so despite the initial lower voltage the cranking power shouldn't be much different if it works properly. Good Luck

ive been watching my 6 volt battery charging now for about 6 hours and my mix of 1 oz alum to 100 oz distellid water seems to be workingafter i take the charger off ill do a voltage drain with a lite and see how long it last

ok the mix iws 1oz alum to 100 oz distilled water im working on a deep cycle 6 volt batt now almost a full charge running with a desulfator more tomorow

after 24 hours on the charger i took the batt off the charger and hooked up a 24 volt scooter motor ill run it till it dies out althouh chargeing the batt for 24 hours i never saw any bubling of the cellsbut for two hours now the scooter motor is still running ...more later

here are more ...i put the motor on the batt at 9am it ran untill 12 midnite still a very small amount of power the motor was running very slowly thats 15 hours of running time with still some energy left i let the batt sit for 2 hours and hooked up a vmeter 3 volts now its back on the charger for another 24 hrs with desulfator ...more to come

I have done this process and had success. My son's quadbike has a 12V lead acid battery that is only about 6 months old. The ignition was left on for about 24 hours once and the battery was dead. I recharged the battery and it lasted for about 2 months, after which it would not take and hold charge enough to start the bike. I took the battery and emptied out the fluid that was in there. I rinsed it 3 times with boiling water. Then I poured a saturated solution of Bicarbonate soda into it and let it stand overnight until no bubbles were coming out. I emptied that out and rinsed it once with distilled water and emptied that out. Then I put in a Alum:distilled water solution of 1:10 and charged it overnight. Before I started this whole process it showed 9,3V and after charging it with the Alum solution, it showed 13,5V. I then put the battery back into the bike and it cranked strongly and the bike started easily. I started the bike for a few times and the battery remained strong. I will now see how long it lasts. I am now ready to try and revive a old truck battery that is standing on the farm for a few years.